Marcionism

Okay, Noah, that was one of the best posts we've seen thus far. Nice stuff.

When you touch on Marcion of Sinope, I can't help but get excited because the era in which he lived (150 yrs. prior to 200 yrs. after) is the time that cranks my tractor!

The cool thing about Marcion is that most all we know of him comes from those who hated him. His main infraction was the recreation of a NT text that only contained the supposed words of Christ and the Pauline texts. He didn't reject the God of the OT, but he did see that God as a separate God from the NT's. The Catholic church, in its early stages, separated from him after his father excommunicated him for sexual sins. This religious ouctast was already in hot water by the time his rogue views found parchment.

This biggest problem with Marcionism is the lack of creedence given to supposed prophecy fulfillment. I don't have a clue what is true, but I do know that the only way for Jesus to have credibility as "savior" is through prophecy. The Jews who followed and the Gentiles who proselyted did so because of the supposed fulfillment of prophecy in the OT. If the two, Christianity and Judaism, are in staunch contrast, as Marcion believed, then Marcion would have to establish a new list of criteria for Jesus' validity. It's not that that can't be done, it's that Marcion didn't do it. That left Christianity, in Marcion's structure, as no better than any other religion that began in the 1st century of the Common Era. Obviously, that does not sit well with anyone who wants to view his/her belief system on a continuum that ascribes critical importance to every point and event.

Enough of my babbling. I'll save it for another class.

Again, nice post, Noah.

Different gods in the Old and New Testament?

Throughout history this has been a bit of a hot topic. In the second century a major theologan named Marcion promoted this ideology. Of course he was denounced as a heretic by what later became the organized church. He was labelled as a Gnostic, though, I don't really think he fits that strict definition. Definitely a dualist though. He taught that Jesus was the savior, but that Christianity was distinct from and incompatible with Judaism. In Marcionism the true god had no previous interactions with mankind and sent Jesus to help free humans from the cruel and defective world created by the demiurge; the god of the Hebrew bible was considered a demiurge-type character and lesser than the god of Christianity. This aspect of his teachings was similar to gnosticism. The Gnostics considered Yaweh to be the creator, and therefore the de facto source of evil. This is not at all out of the realm of Judaic thought, as Yaweh is the source of all things good and bad for a large portion of the Old Testament. Take the following verses: Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and CREATE DISASTER; I, YHWH (Yahweh), do all these things.

Lamentations 3:38 - Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and EVIL come?

Jeremiah 26:3 - It may be they will listen, and every one turn from his EVIL way, that I may repent of the EVIL which I intend to do to them because of their EVIL doings.

1 Kings 21:29 - Have you seen how Ahab has humbled himself before me? Because he has humbled himself before me, I will not bring the EVIL in his days; but in his son's days I will bring the EVIL upon his house.

Some people even think that Yahweh of the Old Testament, and Satan in the New Testament are the same character. This is somewhat in-line with the Gnostic philosophy of the material world and its creator being evil, and the new Testament god being the beacon of light and truth that can free mankind from this. This philosophy is actually based on one of the verses we read in class on Wednsday, as well as another in Chronicles:

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them, saying, Go, number Israel and Judah.

compared with the following:

1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.

Here it appears that Yahweh, and Ha Sheth'n, the accusing angel, or adversary, are doing the exact same thing, are the same character, are working together, or are different aspects of the same character. These certainly aren't the only interpretatons, but this is very interesting to think about. The chronicles verse also ascribes more power to Ha Sheth'n than is given him (or her) in other sections. Usually Yahweh has to approve of this character's actions (like in Job) or simply allow them. What do you guys think?

Dualism and Jesus as a Neo-Levite

It seems like there's a tendency to view YHWH as egomaniacal and elitist in our OT readings. We've commonly referred to the incongruence of the death of the "stick-picker" and the lenience shown to David in the blatant census disobedience as examples of these traits in God. My question is a little early, in regards to the syllabus, but what are your thoughts on the possibility of two near-totally different gods represented in the Bible? The god of the OT seems to be an oppressive, prideful, even racist despot. The god in the NT is addressed by characters as if s/he/it is far away and unapproachable. In fact, Jesus seems to act in an almost priestly fashion by saying that no one can approach god without first approching him (Jesus). Maybe I am mis-reading, but that sounds a lot like the priest-speak that we read in the Pentateuch! I wonder if there's any study on a deuteronomic approach to the NT.

Also, has anyone checked out the first three words of 1 Maccabees?! I've not spent any time in the Maccabees so I'm pretty pumped to see that Alexander the Great is mentioned in the Bible. You Catholics get all the fun histories!

Get together?

Hello all, sorry i've been unavailable for the past few days, but i'll be back in class on wed. I don't have class on tuesdays or thursdays, so those are good for me. Thursday I work in the writing center from 6-9 though. Monday and Friday I'm done with class at 2:50, but Wed. i have a night class from 6-8:45. See you guys soon.

Schedule

My schedule is pretty open. Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday evenings after 5:30 pm are booked, but any other time should be workable for me.

Kathryn

Schedule

My schedule is free throughout the week after our class, except for Friday's. I usually have to be at work around noon that day.

~ Article on Prophecies ~

~ God canvassing for elections with all/mostly male supporters --is the idea that struck me while reading The Phenomenon of Prophecies. The conduct of leaders under constant speculation, the tug of power to institutionalise God as 'people of the Lord' and the nations conflict over the issue; sounds absurd to me! Looks as if people of those times had no inner voice to choose or distinguish on their own!! One followed and was expected to do so of whatever the 'power' said. The question of righteousness was not to be decided by the public. The following drew my attention:
"The canonical prophets had raised expectations of righteousness in their community and of fulfillment of the Lord's way in history that could not be realized in proximate and penultimate conditions and times." [Page 170*]

~ The second idea that came in my mind was God as the greatest example of patriarchal figure in the history of mankind. The story has a male God and mostly male servants/prophets!! Complete lack of women Gods (Goddesses). Why the gift of prophecy only to men? Women are subject to 'visions' but never chosen by God to deliver 'the vision' to others. Did God think women were incapable of influencing? Or is that a sexist attitude!!